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November 05, 2012

Comments

John Steele

Richard, I support SSM and believe that it is appropriate that some churches and businesses will get sued in states where SSM is legalized. How far we go in accommodating anti-SSM beliefs in a pro-SSM state is an important issue and the courts are the natural place for that to be resolved. That's my normative comment. As for the factual side, is it true or not true that churches have been sued in Massachusetts following the legalization of SSM? A quick look around the internet suggests it's factually true. But perhaps I am wrong about that?

Richard W. Painter

Most of the litigation involves church affiliated organizations such as hospitals and universities that want to deny benefits to married employees, students, and patients not litigation against the churches themselves. Most states have a broad religious exemption for churches on these issues and of course lawyers on both sides will want to explore how far it goes. In a country where people are happy to litigate (and where we have no loser pays rule) people will sue over anything, but it is misleading to blame that on changes in marriage laws. And furthermore the ad does not reveal that the greatest liability exposure for churches that support these amendments has been their own hypocrisy on issues related to human sexuality. The half-truth about litigation, along with the outright lie about gay sex being taught in schools, comprise the falsehood.

John Steele

If my "most" you mean "not all," then the factual statement in the ad is true. Why not go the other way and say, "yes we can expect some churches to be sued after passage of SSM laws, and we have seen some churches sued after legalization of SSM, and that's not a bad thing because . . . "?

Richard W. Painter

Here is an example of a lawsuit:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/10/massachusetts-gay-couple-sues-church-over-nixed-house-sale_n_1870780.html

The church seeks to sell a house and refuses to sell it to a gay couple because the church fears they will celebrate gay marriages there. The causal link between this lawsuit and marriage laws is extremely remote. If this particular church sold the house to a gay couple the church would likely object to many things that could take place in the house regardless of the marriage laws. The legal issue is whether the church should have the right to refuse to sell real estate to persons whose activities violate religious principles, whether gambling, drinking, gay sex, sex outside or marriage or anything else. That is not a same sex marriage issue.

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